First a digital magazine, then an online shop and finally a brick and mortar store: Hamburg-based concept store Wasted Hour's trajectory to date is about as multifaceted as that of its founder Martin Hufnagel. A law graduate with a penchant for fashion, culture and music, Hufnagel is a man of many talents - from founder to buyer to DJ - all while introducing the concept of gender-inclusive fashion to the people of Hamburg.

In its communication, the concept store shies away from the word "genderless" - Wasted Hour's profile on the social network Instagram describes the range as "special, selected & sustainable" instead. However, those who enter the shop expecting a conventional men's and women's department will be in for a surprise, as there is no traditional gender division at Neuer Wall in Hamburg.

In an interview with FashionUnited, Hufnagel revealed why he decided against a "traditional" shop, why - in retrospect - he describes his own decision as "somewhat naive" and why gender ultimately does matter when it comes to e-commerce.

Fashion is becoming more and more fluid, but until now the standard has been to categorise fashion by gender, both on most catwalks and in the shops. Why did you decide against it?

For me, the division by gender has never made much sense. Nowadays, womenswear and menswear are shown together on some runways; distinctions are no longer as pronounced as they once were. The personal responsibility lies with the consumer again, allowing them to decide which pieces they feel attracted to, regardless of label or department. This leaves a lot of room for interpretation on the part of the customer.

Of course, there are brands or special pieces within collections that are more feminine, some are more masculine, but even that is slowly changing. You can see that more and more brands are now starting to offer "double sizing".

Shoppers gain the freedom to interpret, but what impact does the lack of separation between genders have on you as a buyer?

From a pragmatic buyer's perspective, it's relatively simple: the more fashion weeks a year, the more stressful. If the division into menswear and womenswear were to suddenly no longer exist, I would welcome that for logistical reasons alone - but of course also in a fashion sense.

It may be easier logistically, but how do your customers react when they come to the store?

Time has shown that female customers are less surprised, but male customers are still looking for "their" department. This is also due to the fact that we were only operating online for a long time and didn't sell many "classic" items, such as suits, as they are a nightmare to sell online. That's why there aren't just three mannequins with suits that could serve as a signal to the men.

Another thing which has become clear, however, is that as soon as you present customers with an item that is perceived as masculine, they are open to continue browsing the store. However, male customers definitely need more educational work, a little more "nudging" and reassurance that they can't mess things up.

Why do men find it so difficult to cross the supposed " boundaries" into women's fashion?

It's important to remember that women have long been led to believe that wearing men's fashion is cool. The idea of a woman borrowing something from her boyfriend's wardrobe has been a trend for ages. Boyfriend jeans have always existed, girlfriend jeans have never existed. It's much harder to now explain to men that there's nothing shameful or wrong with borrowing from women's fashion.

And yet there is still a clear division online, why?

The first click on any website is always the choice of gender. If we were to remove this selection, we would end up shooting ourselves in the foot. Unfortunately, there are rules in e-commerce that we have to abide by, and yet we shoot all products twice and show them side by side, both on men and women. Unfortunately, we don't have the opportunity to explain our concept verbally online, but the duplicate display does make it clearer.

While Wasted Hour has existed as a magazine for a while now, the shop is still in its infancy by comparison. You tested the concept with a pop-up during the pandemic, followed by the opening of the permanent retail space

Exactly, we had two pop-ups, one in an ice cream parlour in winter during the pandemic and then a second one in 2022 together with 'Ain't No Trash', a studio for vintage design. This pop-up was made possible by a project from the city and we were able to move into the city centre for six months.

At this time, we also realised how important the move towards bricks-and-mortar retail was, as we saw a decline online after Covid and Brexit meant that we lost our most important country, both on the customer side and in terms of brands. We had a lot of brands from London, but unfortunately this is no longer an option due to the import sales tax. It breaks my heart, on the one hand for the customers, but of course also for the designers who have done a great job for years.

You made the move towards bricks-and-mortar retail at a time when it was struggling. Did that require a certain amount of courage?

Yes, or a little naivety. There's a revolution going on at the moment, but I'm not entirely sure whether the big players are having above-average problems or whether the environment is simply in a healthy decline and everything is returning to a level playing field.

How does this change affect the buying process?

In the past, we were given the same general conditions as a large department store, and of course we couldn't keep up with that, but now these conditions seem to be more individualised again and everyone is working together more closely.

Brick-and-mortar was also a game changer for us in the sense that many of the brands we work with still attach great importance to a physical presence. In this sense, the store has once again opened a few doors for us.

How can one imagine your order schedule?

We more or less follow the traditional order rhythm. However, during the autumn/winter order, for example, I still ask about available pieces for spring/summer. We don't have the financial means to spend a huge amount six months in advance and hope that the store will run the way we want it to at the end of the day. Instead, we try to be very agile, to observe what is currently in the shop and doing extremely well and then react accordingly.

Since London is no longer in the realm of possibility, where are you currently looking for inspiration?

Copenhagen Fashion Week is always inspiring. Copenhagen has managed to establish itself as the fifth fashion week, something other cities have tried to do before. Copenhagen clearly has the means and the willingness to promote both established and younger brands, and there is still a desire for fashion, it's not quite so 'rushed'. There is also currently a very interesting Scandinavian wave that emphasises sustainability but is still progressive.

In June 2018, Wasted Hour launched with two brands, today there are roughly 20. What criteria do you use to select labels for the store?

The first thing, regardless of whether it's a recommendation, an Instagram post or a lookbook, is that the brand triggers something in me. I see an incredible number of brands every day, so if I see something that gives me pause, then that's the indicator that leads to the classic process.

For us, that means: establishing contact? Who is behind it? Do we like each other? What is the quality of the goods and how are they produced, what is the concept behind the brand, do we have the customers for it, what is the margin and how often are the products already available in Hamburg - and then the air starts to get relatively thin. If these aspects are in line, it also depends on whether we can agree on terms with the brand. The length of time this process takes is always very individual, sometimes it's super quick, other times it takes a few seasons.

You just mentioned the quality and production of the goods, which is where the idea of sustainability comes into play. How do you define the term for yourself?

This discussion is endless, not least because the term sustainability is still not truly defined. That's exactly why I resisted officially communicating as a "sustainable store" for years. Many sustainable shops have a very specific look and represent very strict moral standpoints, both of which are alien to me. For us, sustainability is defined by open communication, both with the brands, with whom we are in constant dialogue and where we ask a lot of questions, and with our customers, to whom we can provide the relevant information on production.

In a way, there is an educational mission, just like with genderless fashion. I resisted it for a long time, but I think at the end of the day, that's the purpose of a physical store - the dialogue with customers.

With sustainability and gender neutrality, you have dedicated yourself to two highly charged topics ...

Of course it was fascinating, but also absolutely naive. I simply overestimated myself at the beginning and underestimated the issues of sustainability and genderless fashion, especially in a city like Hamburg. How much pioneering work can you take on, especially at the beginning? On the other hand, the mechanism cannot be that everything that is a bit "cooler" or "different" takes place in Berlin or outside Germany.

Has the trailblazing proved financially worthwhile in the meantime?

I didn't go into the business to make big money; if that had been my goal, I would have continued with law and gone into big law. I have an incredible passion for it and I fully stand behind the decision. I had always wondered why the fashion industry works the way it does and why nobody tries to do it differently. Now I definitely have a few more answers, but I also know that it's worth sticking to a concept, even if it takes work to develop it.

What would you do differently with the knowledge you have now if you could start again from scratch?

Probably everything. It's a bit like completing a video game and then realising how it works. But then how much fun is left? The biggest learning process for me was definitely the realisation that you really have to start at minus 1000 when it comes to communication, be it in terms of sustainability or gender neutrality; that was a reality check.

This article originally appeared on FashionUnited.DE